Going into round 3, my friend Brad with deathwing has 70/70 my friend Al has a 70/70 I have a 70/70 and Dameon Green with his vanilla marines has 70/70. I prey to the match up gods since I could stomp Brad or Al, but Dameon could beat me into the ground. Well round 3 pairings, Nick Vs Dameon table 2!
Woo!
Mission was 5 objectives or something, I don't remember because it didn't matter in the slightest.
Deployment was pitched battle.
His list
HQ
Khan on bike
Elites
3 Dreads- 2 Twin linked auto cannons
Troops
2 8 man bike squads- 2 meltas, power fist, attack bike with multi melta
2 5 man scout squad- power fist
Fast
2 Storms- heavy flamers
Heavy
3 Thunderfire cannons
Dameon is known for having a bad reputation, so I took it upon myself to watch him closely. We had a few disagreements throughout the game, such as does the hole of the blast template need to be completely over the models base or just touching. He also was very close to calling me out for cheating which I found very displeasing (to be fair I was rolling really well for my scatters and runs). But, other than that we made it through the game and despite getting the shit beat out of me, the game was fun.
So he wins the roll for first and gives it to me. He deployed very castled up in a corner. The thunders in the back, the dreads in front of them and the bikes in front of them. The storms scouted up to create an anti deepstrike bubble with the jammer or whatever it's called.
My Turn 1
I wanted 2 units of fiends, 2 units of bloodletters (1 with icon) and my charriots, and I got it. 1 charriot flew into impassable terrain and mishapped, throwing him back into reserve. The rest I think I hit with everything. I came in about 15 inches away from his bikes, and spread out to 2 inches with my run rolls with everything. My one charriot managed to wreck a speeder.
His Turn 1
He moved up with his bikes and shuffled his dreads. His one sppeeder also moved up. Here's where we had our first disagreement. He claimed that the hole in the center of the template only had to be touching a model's base, I claimed it had to be over completely. I still don't know who was right, but I conceeded the point to him very quickly due to lack of caring. So despite me spreading myself 2 inches apart everywhere, he would consistently hit 2 models with his small blasts. After the thunder fire cannons went I had lost all but one squad of bloodletters, and half a unit of fiends. The bikes rapid fired and killed a few more from that unit. The other bike unit rapi fired and killed 3 from the other unit. So, I'm lloking at one unit of fiends with 3 wounds leftm the ther with 5. The dreads unloaded and killed the weaker fiend squad and popped another fiends from the 3 man squad.
Brutal turn.
My Turn 2
I have great reserve rolls, everything comes in except my charriot that mishapped lol, and 1 unit of screamers. Everything comes in the middle of the board and spreads out, again almost all hits from my scatter. This is where he got frustrated and almost called me out for cheating. Now here's my plan. Khan nad his bike squad are within charge range of my bloodletters and fiends, if I can kill khan and tie up his squad they can't get away then I can either finish them or hit and run away from him on his turn to start wrecking his thunder fires. My bloodletters moved up in such a way that they would only be able to reach khan (since he was in front) the fiends also made it so that he was the closest model to charge. I got the charges off, and between 18 bloodletter attacks, at S5 I managed 2 wounds, of which he passed both. The fiend on khan put 1 wound on him and the fiend on teh bikes killed a bike. He buttrapes both of my units...
His Turn 2
He's free to move now. So he moves up with his dreads into charge range of my seekers. And surrounds my army with his bikes. the thunder fires opened up on my seekers and killed 18 of them or something. The dreads shot my fiends and killed 3 or so. 1 bike squads shot the fiends and then charged them, finishing them off. The other bike squad shot a squad of bloodletters, then charged in with khan and went furst killing them all.
My Turn 3
The rest of my army comes in. I try to kill things like his speeders and scouts to draw kill points (it's a win by 3 margin), as to get some points from this game. I popped another speeder. My 2 remaining seekers charge a squad of scouts and kill 3, but lose one of there own. The last unit of bloodletters is too far away to do anything, so it runs away.
His Turn 3
He hunderfires away my bloodletter, and chases after my charriots with his bikes. I think he got one. His dreads do some damage to my screamers. In combat neither the seekre nor the scout dies.
My Turn 4
Run away! try to snipe kill points and fail,
His Turn 4
He shoots ignores cover blasts at my screamers to get rid of their turbo save. He illed a unit this way. His dreads and bikes kill my charriots. And in combat we push again.
My Turn 5
I Turbo behind LOS blocking terrain with my last 4 screamers. He finally kills my seeker.
His Turn 5
He turbos to catch me. Now there's nowhere to hide.
At this points I concede. I gto 0 he got 35, putting him in first.
I'm a little dissapointed, but I expected it, I also take losing well so I bounced right back. Me and my friends went out to some asian restaurant where I dropped 30 bucks for some teriyaki chicken and spare ribs, but it was good time. Then I headed back to my house which was only 30 mins away from the GT!
So this guy almost kills half your entire army in one round of shooting, and then in the next breath suggests you are cheating. Like, wouldn't you have cheated to keep your army alive??
ReplyDeleteI do agree with him about models under the center hole of a Blast template, as there is no rule I know of stating the model must be *completely* under the center hole. It's not a popular interpretation. That said, any in-game rules dispute is generally settled between gentlemen with a roll-off or a call to the judges.
I really dislike those matches where a douche-bag player smokes my army. Good on you for bouncing back the next day!
That's pretty much why he didn't call the judges over. Maybe if I had actually made a lot of my saves I could see where he was coming from, but seriously. He tabled half my army in one turn. That has never happened to me before. Certainly the worst ass kicking I ever got.
ReplyDeleteAlso on the template issue, his logic made sense to me. So I let him play the way he wanted without oo much fuss. It's an ambiguous rule, and I guess that's a dispute about what each player was accustomed to.
Well the rulebook only says "with its hole over the base". Seems a bit of a dirty interpretation to not put it completely over the base. Doubling the casualties from the Cannon seems too have been your undoing.
ReplyDeleteOver the base can certainly be read as "any part over the base". Just like a model counts as being in Area Terrain if any part of its base is in the template. And a model is covered by a blast marker or template if any part of its base is covered. And a model is within 2" of a vehicle's hatch if any part of its base is. It does make a big difference. Good attitude, Nick! Thanks for the report.
ReplyDelete@Shimrod,
ReplyDeleteAll those rules are correct and the book states that partials are allowed, it does not for placing the template. Anyway I do not want to get into a RAW argument so shall leave it there. This is just another example of why I do not go to large 40k tournaments.
This match can either be interpret as bad match up or eye opener.
ReplyDeleteThe 3x Thunderfire cannons is the kryptonite to MSU foot units. In the same time, he did put out a large amount of fire power against your units from other stuffs. Most of your demons come in and hide for a turn, in return, they take a full round of shooting in the face before they go to work if there are no decent LOS terrains.
This game is the perfect example to exam your list and Brent's. If Dameon can clean most of your first drop, everything comes after that will just become piecemeal. Bad dice is a factor. But now we look at Brent's Adepticon list, he tries to put bolt in every unit if possible. When they come in, they can shoot to shake or stun something, in return, it reduces incoming fire from the next turn, which improve survivability for his first wave, and then the incoming waves will start the stack and overload his opponent.
alex said:
ReplyDelete"When they come in, they can shoot to shake or stun something, in return, it reduces incoming fire from the next turn, which improve survivability for his first wave, and then the incoming waves will start the stack and overload his opponent."
Bolt Princes, sure. Bolts on Pink Horrors at BS 3, nothing reliable.
The blast marker issue unfortunately comes up quite often, however I've never seen the hole being ever partially off the base fly at an event. In the future just get in the practice of respectfully calling over a judge, calling a judge doesn't have to come off as "you're cheating and I'm telling daaaaadddd". It's simply a very mature and amicable way to settle a rules dispute. We don't agree, lets just call and get a third party to make the ruling so it doesn't ruin our game.
ReplyDeleteAs a sidenote, even as an IG player I side with the "hole must be over the base" argument, meaning the entire hole is over the base. I see how it can be read the other way, but if you look at the diagram on the same page, while the hole isn't centered, the intent is to maximize how many models are caught, and the diagram doesn't allow 1 smidgen of it to go off the targeted models base, it's not centered on the base mind you, but it doesn't go off, it's against the edge.
That's life though, not everyone gets along, it's all what you make of it afterwards!
Good game, and good job keeping your head in it despite the early hurt. I find the one important hallmark of a good/seasoned tourney player is the ability to bounce back from a loss/bad streak of luck and not just go on tilt (something we've all done from time to time).
My original lists ran 4 units of horrors with bolt. My Nova list from last year I think may have even had 5. I've found that instead of unreliably supressing the enemies fire power, you're better off adding stuff that can actually contribute to the game by being a threat. With Brent's army only 2/3 of the enemy will be able to shoot his 3 units of fiends. In my list all of the enemy will be able to shoot my 3 fiend units, 5 bloodletter units, 2 screamer units, and enormous seeker unit. Mathematically and practically it's just better to run with more squads thatare threatening than to put in over priced unreliable firepower.
ReplyDeleteAlso thank you to everyone who thinks I handled the situation well, it means a lot lol.
ReplyDeleteWhat did he actually think was wrong with your deep striking? A loaded die? Just not sure where that gets controversial...
ReplyDeletePretty much, I got almost all hits of my scatters, and my run rolls were all pretty much 4 or higher. But it was very apparent that I was rolling below average for save, failing 2/3 of my cover instead of 1/2, stuff like that.
ReplyDeleteModels occupy the area of their base. By that standard, if he is partially placing the hole over the base, he is also partially NOT placing the hole over the base. The rule states place over the base, not partially on or partially off.
ReplyDelete